It’s time to shake off the winter chill and welcome the fresh competition of Spring! The Spring 2025 Season of the Cribbage Pro Competitive Matchmaking Tournament is here – bringing a new opportunity to climb the ranks, refine your skills, and battle it out against the best. Whether you're looking to defend your position or make a name for yourself, now’s the time!
Before we jump into the action of Spring 2025, let’s take a quick look back at how the Winter 2025 season wrapped up.
Winter 2025
The Winter 2025 season brought in an impressive number of players, coming close to setting a new record for winter participation—historically the busiest season of the year. While feedback on this season’s changes was mixed, the overwhelming response was very positive, so we’ll be keeping the same format for Spring 2025. In the meantime, we’re focusing on developing exciting new features for the game later this year. This competitive matchmaking format continues to grow as the largest cribbage tournament available anywhere, and that’s all thanks to you. We truly appreciate your participation!
This Winter 2025 season saw a lot of changes in the Leaderboard over last season, with several of the top cribbage players showing up to bring their best game to the contest. However, I should also mention that we saw multiple players drop from their positions in the Top 50 during the last few weeks of the season simply due to lack of completing the 10 matches per week. It is important to remember that those adjustments that impact your CR from lack of meeting the minimum are "progressive" and build from week to week. At the same time if you return to getting your matches in even after missing a week or two, you can often recover if you can get enough new matches completed.
For the final results, holding on to first place we have a somewhat "regular" here, with "iPeg", followed by someone we have also seen near the top before with "TC2" in 2nd with a past best of 2nd place as well many seasons back (and in the top 10 / 50 multiple times too). In 3rd we have "Dhrun" up from 6th last season, and similarly someone who isn't new to the top positions (achieving 1st a few seasons back). Lastly, as honorable mentions for Winter 2025, we have "ernie313" who came all the way up from 43rd last season (and has a best of 2nd), to 8th this season and "Alaska47" up to 15th (a new personal best) from 46th! I also want to add a special thank you to "Alaska47" for helping to identify and squash a bug in the system this past season. I genuinely appreciate everyone who takes the time to report issues rather than assuming we already know—it truly helps make the game better for everyone!
With Winter 2025 now in the books, it’s time for a fresh start. Who will rise to the challenge this season? Let’s find out—see you on the leaderboard!
Special awards for the Top 50 players include in-game board pegs: the top player receives the "crown" peg, while others in the Top 50 get the "star" peg. These pegs are prominently displayed in online multiplayer games, serving as permanent badges of distinction earned through competitive play.
Reminder: Complete 10 matches per week! See the FAQ for details on the timing each week
Here was the final Top 50 for Winter 2025:
| 1 | iPeg | 26 | Crackula | |
| 2 | TC2 | 27 | jeezumjan | |
| 3 | Dhrun | 28 | pegmstr77 | |
| 4 | DAiello | 29 | TLC1966 | |
| 5 | nob4one | 30 | lbolt58 | |
| 6 | dcpastore | 31 | nvsru911 | |
| 7 | VGKnights | 32 | mm1515 | |
| 8 | ernie313 | 33 | Ronalds66 | |
| 9 | cyrusg | 34 | card55 | |
| 10 | kb92129 | 35 | niltes | |
| 11 | Br1Guy | 36 | Mrpadre | |
| 12 | Jimmymc | 37 | TheArgus | |
| 13 | FEC | 38 | Kinger765 | |
| 14 | SHOOTRR | 39 | Domerzag | |
| 15 | Alaska47 | 40 | 4KA | |
| 16 | AZwriter | 41 | grembin | |
| 17 | GregVee | 42 | dph | |
| 18 | jwr13 | 43 | vJimc | |
| 19 | RMK800 | 44 | Chivastt2 | |
| 20 | gsosin | 45 | catpat | |
| 21 | konadive | 46 | SamGash33 | |
| 22 | scout3 | 47 | shaneojak | |
| 23 | jjonell | 48 | BigCrbNRG | |
| 24 | Dpac | 49 | BennieO | |
| 25 | pscohen | 50 | warrior14 |
As always, if you have any questions, feedback on what you would like to see around awards, structure / format or anything else, email us any time at support@FullerSystems.com.
I do wish the game was totally random. It is obvious early on when the computer is going to dictate who wins. You learn the computer and try and second guess, but??? I love the game, the site is OK, just wish the outcome was not predetermined.
ReplyDeleteHi, good news, the card shuffle is absolutely random. As we have shown extensively with clear empirical evidence and published audits, it isn't stacking the deck or anything else like that whatsoever. See the FAQ for details, and follow the links there for the deeper discussion. If you do that and have any questions about it, email us any time at support@FullerSystems.com
DeleteBig Bull 12, I agree wholeheartedly. I don't think the intention is to be unfair, but for those of us who have been playing for decades know, it's clearly a flawed dealing system. Things that never happen in real life always happen here.
DeleteEvery season I start out getting buried by people who have no place winning, but get the most incredible hands and cribs. You can only beat someone 98-92 in hand scores so many times in a row where their average hand is like 10.5 and yours is 7.2 before you realize you're not winning regardless. I work in statistics and understand all too well that these things can happen, but they happen far too often to be considered random. It's demotivational and makes me want to quit.
In addition, I know from experience here that if you EVER place any cards within a few ranks of each other, your opponent is going to crush it in the crib so I've become accustomed to never being able to take risks there because you know what's going to happen.
It's a shame because I love cribbage and I play all the time and have in real life as well for decades but the constant inequity has me absolutely frustrated. The system has a predisposition to giving the better hands to the higher ranked player at the time. That being said, I've been the beneficiary in that situation as well but even then it's unfair and I just have to be happy that it's rigged for me in those instances. I love this app and I love cribbage but the faulty dealing is just becoming too frustrating. Now that the same thing has happened AGAIN and I went through an 8 game losing streak, I know I'll only be offered playing the low ranked people which makes it virtually impossible to catch up. Rather than spewing the company line about tests being done and it being completely random, I wish more testing and review of past games would be done until this issue could actually be rectified.
Hi "DrewBlue", if you "work in statistics" and want to conduct analysis against actual game data, I'm definitely open to letting you do that. I have let others before you do the same, and that is where several of the blog posts come from. These aren't just empty claims to being random. If you understand statistics, then I'm sure you can appreciate the data and audits I have already published too. Again, if you have the skills and background needed to conduct such analysis, email me any time at support@FullerSystems.com and we can work out how to get you access and conduct the analysis yourself. Let's develop and test your hypothesis.
DeleteFrankly, BigBull, and DrewBlue for that matter, that’s a big load of bull. It’s your excuse for not having the skill needed to be an elite player, simple as that.
DeleteDrewblew, you're probably not imagining the fact that higher rated players are getting better hands than you. This is probably not due to a biased random number generator, but it's because they're better discarders than you.
ReplyDeleteSince I keep track of my stats, I can tell you that last season my hand average was 8.01 (vs 7.89 for my opponents), pegging 2.74 (vs 2.48 for my opponents), crib score 5.07 (vs 4.72). The discrepancy in hand scores is probably due to my opponents' dubious discard strategy rather than me getting better cards than them. My 8.01 hand average is probably a lot less than you imagine I'm getting.
For example, here are some common mistakes people make. For, 2356JQ most people would probably discard 56 into their own crib. However, optimal discard is the 23. For, 23678J, most people would discard J3 into their crib. Again, optimal discard is the 23.
Dhrun. What is your opinion of 3 of a kind (excluding 5s)? Worth preserving, or are you better off getting rid of one of the cards? Quite often I find myself out pegged when I am holding a 3-oak.
DeleteI almost never break up my 3 of a kind because the 4 point loss is too much to make up. I don't see a problem pegging with 3 of a kind as the dealer. However, as the nondealer, things can get a little trickier. Generally, I lead from my trips as it gives me more flexibility in navigating my opponent's moves. For example, if I'm holding A777, I lead from the 7. If I had led the ace and my opponent responds with a 6, 8 or something similar, I'm trapped into giving up some runs to my opponent. With the 7 lead, you can break up any potential runs by playing the ace.
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ReplyDeleteI think that 10 matches per week is too many. 7 matches - 1 per day, seems more reasonable.
I get 10 matches in within a couple of days, each match is roughly 10 minutes, that's not a lot of time in a week
DeleteHello. Is it possible to get a breakdown of the stats for the each of the 2-3 games played against an opponent, as opposed to cumulative stats for the set? It would be interesting to see the back and forth in a set of matches (e.g. game 1 and 2 were one-sided, but game 3 was close and decided by pegging).
ReplyDeleteAll of the hands, cribs, and pegging are available after the match, but it would take some manual number crunching to get the per game totals and averages. These numbers aren’t available for classic play multi game matches either, but I they may be of interest to some players, maybe two or three besides Cyrus ;)
DeleteI have little doubt that the algorithms are fair. However, when you are in that extended losing streak (I've gone as many as 19 matches) it is difficult to fight the feeling that the game wants you to lose
ReplyDeleteIt is very obvious from the start when the computer is going to make you lose, There should be a penalty free way to surrender . Also, 52 cards in the deck, 12 cards on the deal, the odds of 5’s every hand are virtually astronomical.
ReplyDeleteI would not say astronomical. More like 66% of there being a 5 in the 12 cards on the deal. Compare that with a 99% probability of a 10-value card being among the initial 12 dealt.
DeleteActually for both hands to have a five on the deal is 1 in 13, which is less than 8%. The odds of it happening on the next hand are much less. It happens more than that which becomes ?? You tell me.
Delete1 in 13 (8%) is the chance that the FIRST card dealt is a five.
DeleteTo calculate the odds of a five-card in the first 12 cards is more complex. Here is how.
Calculate how many different ways 12 cards can be dealt out of a 52 card deck. 206,379,406,870
Then calculate have many different ways 12 cards can be dealt from a deck with the fives removed; a 48 card deck. 69,668,534,468.
From these number you can calculate the probability that a five is NOT DEALT in the first 12 cards.
69,668,534,468 / 206,379,406,870 = 34%.
Therefore the probability of at least one five is 66%
Big Bull, DrewBlue, a lot of luck is involved in cribbage. Even the best players are going to lose 40% of the time no matter what they do. Conversely, you will win 40% of the time due to your own good fortune and favorable cards. It’s very easy, but incorrect to fall into a mindset that attributes your 40% wins to what you believe is your skill/cribbage genius and your 40% losses to less skilled players to the game being “rigged,” “not fair” or “bad cards.” Yes, it’s most frustrating losing to inferior players but that’s cribbage. Try to channel that frustration into critically examining and improving your game to better your odds for those 20% of matches where your pegging and discard decisions can make a difference in the outcome. When I did this, I found numerous blind spots and pre-conceived pegging and discard notions that I had to adjust. Fuller’s hand grades are very helpful. I now consistently finish in the top 10 most seasons but still feel that I have much to learn. I’m still getting schooled consistently by the likes of IPeg (he has not won this 5-6 times by being “lucky”) and Dhrun. When you play at a top level against top players like them, one incorrect discard or pegging decision will cost you the match. And with only 6-10 seconds to make those tough decisions, it’s not an easy task. But what a fun challenge it is. For those 20% of tight matches, improving your win rate by just 1%-2% will show substantial results. There is always more to learn from this game. Good luck!
DeleteNot a lot of incentive to keep playing when you're in the top 30 b/c the risk isn't worth the reward. When you get matched up with someone whose CR is 1000 points lower than yours you literally get 1 point if you win the match.
ReplyDeleteIn a way you would be justified in minimizing the number of games played. Your 62% win percentage is more than your 55% average, so your % can only go down. However, I agree with you it's frustrating when the points earned over several close matches are erased with one loss against a lower ranked player, but what can be done?
DeleteYeah, the rating system is counterintuitive because it encourages limiting your play to maximize your CR. Even though I'm in the top 30 I'd need a couple hundred consecutive wins to go for the top spot. That explains why the top player currently has a combined 52 games.
DeleteNot sure why the developer would set up a matchmaking system to penalize top players and discourage them from playing.
Any good skill ranking system I'm aware of will often have similar impacts. As you rank higher, by definition there are fewer and fewer people to play against at that relative rank. If you review the system used (like the Glicko 2 system), and have some specific changes you think would improve things, I'm always open to hearing it. One of the key issues here is simply that there are significant luck factors in cribbage that takes many games to balance out. A best of 3 does help, but it would need to be much more to truly account for it mathematically. This is why we also require 10 matches per week. At some point you have to balance games required with the practical aspects of the reasonable limits to people's time and availability.
DeleteI get what you're trying to accomplish with a rating system but from a player experience perspective it doesn't work well IMO. What's the point of a competitive league when you're matching up players with a 1,100+ difference in CR? If the higher player wins they get 3 points at best. The biggest jumps in win/loss take place during the first couple weeks of the season and then it dwindles down to a few points/game. When there's nearly 300 points between the top 30 players there's no incentive to keep working your way towards the top, you're incentivizing players to play as few games as possible. I'd rather see players encouraged to play more games and just use a fixed point allocation for match wins/losses.
DeleteThanks for the feedback. Points systems have their place, but like you implied, I'm going for something different here with a skill ranking. I personally don't like systems that favor those who can simply play more often. Still, I'm always looking to improve and really do appreciate the input.
DeleteLast season I played more matches than approximately 27 of the top 50 players and was able to finish first. Whether you play a little or a lot, you have to win often to finish near the top.
DeleteHave there been any changes to the CR point calculations this season? Higher totals, top 20 are all over 4400, #50 at 4315, much higher levels than any previous season I can recall. Don’t think there have been any changes as I know you’re up front with everything. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteThere haven't been any changes to the system this season.
DeleteI think there's a definite glitch in this season's ratings. I'm only losing 4 to 5 points per loss when I should be losing 3 times more. Also, it seems everybody I'm facing is 4200+. I never get such favorable pairings.
DeleteThat code for CR calculation has not been changed in years. I'm not saying it's impossible that something else changed and it impacted it somehow, but it definitely should not have. All the supporting code libraries should also not have changed. I plan to still dig through things in more detail to make sure everything is working correctly.
DeleteA quick update on your concerns. First, with respect to the CR rankings you see, I compared with the first few weeks of the last 6 seasons, and I found several where players had higher CR than the highest this season so far, several that had lower CR, and one that was close to the same. So this does happen, particularly early in a season. The other thing I can see is that this season is having more players playing more games than many past seasons, and so that is a factor here as well. I have also double checked all the math, and the underlying systems used to calculate everything, and it all checks out. Nothing has changed in that respect at all.
DeleteCould you provide more detail on the hide/block player feature that was changed in the most recent app update? A lot of us liked having “hidden” players grouped at the bottom of current active players. It was helpful to see when top 50 players were active to try get a decent competitive match. Now all “hidden” players seem to truly be hidden. What was behind the change? Liked it better then old way. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteThe change you mentioned now makes "Hide" actually do what it strongly implies it should have always done - hide the other user (and their games) entirely from the list. The other new features around this now also let you better manage that list, so you can easily add or remove someone from the "Hide" list at any time, even if they are not online at the time (a feature often requested). If you were using the "Hide" feature for something other than actually hiding a player and/or blocking them from the classic multiplayer games, then that is a different question and not something I would have tried to preserve with this change, simply because that is not the intended use of a hide feature. Specifically to your use case of knowing if someone may be online or not, that is what the Friends system is best at doing for you. However, the idea you present here of trying to identify when someone in the Top 50 competitive system is online and playing, would not actually work very well today, and it hasn't for a little while now. This is because there have been changes made on the game servers in preparation for some other features that make it so that if someone is not in the classic multiplayer lobby area, they are now no longer on that list at all. That players list is now just showing players in the classic multiplayer games lobby, as was originally intended for it. If a player goes to the competitive matchmaking side and starts finding a match, or is in a competitive game, they will not be on that list at all as they are not in the classic multiplayer lobby at that point. So the use case you are describing is simply not going to work even for those on older versions of the game on their devices. Lastly, in a similar use case as what you describe, I'm sure you can also imagine someone using what you are describing to actually avoid certain players in the competitive matchmaking - it would work both ways. In either of those cases, that goes against the spirit of the matchmaking system. We do not want people selective choosing to try to find a match or not based on who they think may or may not be playing at the time. The system will work best when everyone has an equal shot at playing against any other player within the matchmaking limits set by the system. Introducing other selective pressure on the system would corrupt the integrity of that goal, so not something we want to see happen. Please understand, I'm sure there were other players like yourself who intended only positive things from acting in that way, but the system will work best when players don't introduce that kind of manipulation into matchmaking.
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