Wow, that went by fast! Here we are in Season 2 of Competitive Matchmaking, and it still feels like the first season started yesterday. Before I jump into some changes/tweaks in Season 2, I want to take a moment to congratulate the top players of the first season, and of course go over what they won for their prize. Congratulations to everyone who made it into the Top 50 Leaderboard for Competitive Matchmaking! A particular congratulations to the top 3 players, kb92129, PegSurfer and our top finisher Nytric456!! Each of the top 3 also reached the final CR Level of Grand-Master! I know many have worked very hard to get to where they placed, so congratulations to everyone no matter where you ended the season for such a great competitive season. If you didn't make the Top 50 this time, now is your chance to start fresh and go for the gold!
Speaking of "gold", everyone who finished the season in the Top 50 ("Recent" list, not "All Time"), were awarded both a special in-game "board peg" as well as Cribbage Pro Gold that can be used in the Cribbage Pro Contests system and then redeemed for cold hard cash (awards must be used at least once in a Contest to be cashed out to USDC, see the full terms and conditions for details). The top finisher, Nytric456, is awarded the "crown" board peg, and all others in the Top 50 are awarded a "star" board peg. These pegs are shown to everyone when playing in online multiplayer games, so if you see your opponent has one of them you can know that they have earned it by finishing in the Top 50 in competitive play. The Cribbage Pro Gold awards are as follows (not cumulative):
- 2 Gold for Top 50
- 4 Gold for Top 25
- 10 Gold for Top 10
- 20 Gold for 3rd Place
- 30 Gold for 2nd Place
- 50 Gold for 1st Place
The first season included many thousands of players competing from all over the world, and the number of players grew every single day up until the very end. Season 2 is certainly going to be even more competitive than before, so hang in there and work hard to improve your game - and of course, have fun! With that said, here are some important changes in Season 2:
- This new season will be a little shorter, at 90 days
- All competitive players must play a minimum of 10 games per week to avoid a reduction in ranking. This is not really a "penalty", but it is a reduction in the systems confidence level of your rank if you don't play enough to calculate a rank accurately. The more time that you do not play, the less we know about how well you would perform relative to those who are playing. This 10 game minimum is likely a commitment that not everyone can make. However, this is "the big time" intended for the serious cribbage player, and the system simply has to have enough game play information to get rankings as accurate as possible. If you play just a few games per day, you will have over 10 in a week very quickly. I strongly recommend not waiting until the last day.
- Starting in Season 2, we have "tweaked" the formula used in calculating the ranking change you earn when you win or lose a match (what you will see as your CR going up or down). These changes were done to try and more accurately represent the nature of the game of cribbage, and the inevitable "ups and downs" players can go through, so that the ranking can be a bit more fluid (although, probably just slightly more). These were not big changes, just some "tuning" that we think will help. I expect we will continue tuning this system for multiple seasons to come as we see how each change performs in the real world.
| 1 | Nytric456 | 26 | PALONSO |
| 2 | PegSurfer | 27 | scout3 |
| 3 | kb92129 | 28 | 12floz |
| 4 | Br1Guy | 29 | fisher17 |
| 5 | iPeg | 30 | c3polerud |
| 6 | TC2 | 31 | akeigwin |
| 7 | dubbinit | 32 | Geofred1 |
| 8 | jmath714 | 33 | flashmatt |
| 9 | dixietix | 34 | HeadNinja |
| 10 | nob4one | 35 | 642sas |
| 11 | flyangler | 36 | Menks02 |
| 12 | VGKnights | 37 | BOShag |
| 13 | dcpastore | 38 | Cmoney421 |
| 14 | Dpac | 39 | MonkeyGod |
| 15 | james500 | 40 | infinity |
| 16 | CzarMark | 41 | conelson |
| 17 | Moondog44 | 42 | steelock7 |
| 18 | 19thhole | 43 | ski01 |
| 19 | 29ffrey | 44 | Yompopo |
| 20 | duke62 | 45 | mbhenjum |
| 21 | BigD4Life | 46 | jeffcoull |
| 22 | habsgoose | 47 | Freddie69 |
| 23 | Cgardin | 48 | sheepman |
| 24 | picklejew | 49 | gsosin |
| 25 | CT398 | 50 | godawgs13 |
Will there be a season with the best of 1 game matches? Best of 3 games take way too long. The most popular Classic match option is best of 1 so why not offer it in Competitive?
ReplyDeleteHi Jason, the short answer is "No, not for right now". The reason is simply that a single game is not sufficient to determine if the game was one by more skill than luck. Cribbage has a non-trivial amount of luck involved, and so we really need more than one game in a match to account for that.
DeleteThe all-time rankings for the competitive match leaderboard seem to be off- they look like they’re the same as recent activity. Will you be updating “all time“ soon? thanks
ReplyDeleteHi, great question. This can be a little confusing with the concept of "seasons", and we plan on making some further changes to the Leaderboard to help clarify in the future. For Competitive Matchmaking, the "Recent" and "All Time" are always only for the current season. There is no Leaderboard that represents "All Seasons" yet today.
DeleteWhere do you see the results for season 1?
ReplyDeleteThe top 3 are listed here, but as there are thousands of total players it isn't possible to share a complete list publicly. We are considering ways to let you select past seasons in the Leaderboard.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteFlyangler, the rankings/CR were reset for the season, but stats like total games played, won, etc. were not cleared. There was a bit of debate here on that one, but we ended up leaving it in place for now as we felt it was valuable information to know life long stats like that and we would have lost that visibility otherwise.
DeleteIn guess I was just talking about the top 50.
DeleteI'll see if we can publish the final Top 50. Thanks for the suggestion.
DeleteI understand now. It's just that the game stats are not in synch with the CR score, but that is not so much an issue since the CR calculation takes into account more than just wins and losses.
DeleteGiven the choice between seeing stats for all series or the current, then id like to see just the current.. Whats in the past is in the past...
DeleteAgree, it would be nice to see just season 2 stats if possible.
DeleteHi Carl, we have updated the blog post with the list of those who were in the Top 50 at the end of Season 1.
DeleteI find game play to be very accurate vis a vis real life gameplay with the exception of the lack of “flush” hands. I have played tens of thousands of games using your application and have never received a single flush hand. I respectfully suggest that it isn’t statistically possible to never have a flush hand.
ReplyDeleteI disagree
DeleteI get a many flush hands here as I do in real play.
I am surprised that you haven't seen many/any hand flush possible in your cards, but do perform regular audits on the random shuffle to make sure it is performing as expected. We have never seen any indication that a flush is any less likely.
DeleteMaybe he is talking about a flush crib? There are still many of those also.
DeleteWhat can be done with rude players? I was knocked off line a couple times during a game, got back on and was punished by my opponent. I don't know if he/she were unhappy about being behind but the opponent took every opportunity on every move to take as long as possible without being penalized. Sorry my wifi wasn't up to par but let's try not to play angry. This Should be fun.
ReplyDeleteHi, if you see anything inappropriate in the game, the best thing to do is to take a screenshot and send it to us for review. We will investigate every report and this will help identify inappropriate players who we can then warn or even ban as appropriate.
DeleteHi i think your starting system yo season 2 is flawed iv been winning a couple of games and right at the end my opponents have disconnected so i dont get the win and they dont get a loss
ReplyDeleteHi, if someone disconnects on you, they are absolutely not avoiding a loss and you do get the win. All of your stats and the CR being calculated in the background work essentially the same in this case. What is different, is that during the first 5 placement matches a game that was not played to completion does not count towards the number of games played towards the placement matches. This only impacts the placement matches number, and does not impact anything else. This is done to prevent some various forms of potential cheating that could be possible otherwise. Again, nobody is avoiding a loss by doing this -they are in fact penalized and not benefiting themselves in any way.
DeleteOk great thats good to know
ReplyDeleteCan you post pictures of the crown and star boards people won?
ReplyDeleteSure, I'll try to get those updated here next week. To clarify, they are pegs, not boards.
DeleteHi Jess, we just updated the blog post with this so you can see how they look in blue, but if you were not awarded them then on your side they will be your opponent and in red.
DeleteI have started the season 2 competitive matchmaking and my score has not reset is this an error or does my final score from last season go towards this season?
ReplyDeleteSome players did not get properly reset at the start of the season, and if you were impacted by that, you should receive an email from us explaining the situation. As such, the impacted accounts will be fixed within the next hour or so.
DeleteI disagree a bit about the probabilities of flushes this game presents. Just played a 3 game match and I survived on flushes... including a 5 card straight one. But more improbable was when I had a4 card straight flush once and my opponent had a flush in the dame suit. Then the cut card matched too and between us there was a 7 card straight flush. Odds see too astronomical to try to calculate that. Fishy...
DeleteI think it would be better to reset all players to 0 to start the new season or the players on top from season 1 will win again
ReplyDeleteAll players ranking/CR were reset for the new season. Nobody has any advantage from the previous season.
DeleteOk but my score says I am still 139 wins out of 259 just might not have reset yet but I have played over 5 matches
DeleteYour wins/losses are cumulative just like the other regular stats currently. We may be able to provide a split by season in the future.
DeleteTo accurately see a player’s skill for this current season you should only display the win/loss for the current season and not include season 1 totals. Otherwise it appears that season 1 is a factor in determining their skill level.
ReplyDeleteHi, I understand your confusion. The most accurate representation of a players skill is their CR. The number of games played, win or lose, is not part of the skill ranking. We may be able to add a current season and cumulative for these numbers in the future.
DeleteWhat is competitive about playing someone 1000 points lower than you? Matches are not fairly done- I would never play someone 1000 lower if I were one choosing!!
ReplyDeleteHi, simply put the matchmaking system is looking at much more than just the final CR value when making a match. It is also regularly testing both the higher level player and the lower level player to make sure that the ranking is correct. Couple that with the fact that the season just started, and so a higher degree of variation in CR is possible. It is a complex system, but most of that hasn't changed much since the first season and in our review it seems to have had some pretty solid results.
DeleteI’m not questioning your system just the display. Your dismissive answer is inappropriate though. What I suggested is that you display only the current season game stats. Please address that in your response.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry you felt anything in the response before wasn't appropriate. I apologize, as I'm not trying to be dismissive, but actually quite the opposite in acknowledging it can be confusing. As I mentioned before, we are looking at a way to allow both the current season stats on the Leaderboard while not losing the ability to see a cumulative value as well. Hopefully you will see an update with that relatively soon.
DeleteThank you. What is the value of cumulative values if past seasons don’t have an influence on the current season?
ReplyDeleteThere was quite a bit of debate on that one when we made this decision, but these are primarily total win and loss numbers just like the other categories of stats (single player and classic multiplayer) and so the value is in seeing how well you have performed overall as a lifetime value. One of the key reasons for not clearing them (yet) is because if we had done so it would have lost that perspective entirely. We are working on a design that will allow us to keep both, but the current system was a choice between essentially destroying data or not, and so we decided to keep it with the intent to continue to improve it more in the future.
DeleteOnce again. What is the point of that past performance perspective if it (as you claim) doesn’t have an impact on the current season? It Is starting to become apparent that your algorithm relies on that historical data to determine skill level. If so, how would a new or previously poor performing player ever hope to compete on an equal footing with established winners?
ReplyDelete"The point" is only for your information on how you are doing over your lifetime of playing. I find that valuable information, but I'm sure some may not be as interested in it. It is used for nothing more. If you are assuming that it must play a part in the ranking just because it is show, that is incorrect. It absolutely, without any qualifications, does not. The only single value that determines your placement in the Leaderboard is your CR, and your CR calculation has nothing to do with your stats like win/loss.
DeleteTo All,
ReplyDeleteI’ve taken this conversation offline with Fuller systems and he has been very helpful and patient with me in providing the tools I need to understand the rating system. While some of this can be frustrating I want to express my appreciation for the existence of this platform and the competition it provides.
Loving season two so far! Just a few things:
ReplyDelete1. We need a way to rate players. Even in competitive I frequently run into players who take forever or disconnect.
2. Is there a way to see just our season two win/loss/stats?
3. Can you let us know how many players total are currently playing in/qualified for competitive? Maybe at the bottom of the leaderboard?
Thanks again so much for everything!
Hi, glad to hear you are enjoying the game.
Delete1.) If you have someone that looks to be abusing the system, please report them directly to us by taking a screenshot and sending it to support@FullerSystems.com
2.) We are working on something that will let you see just current win/loss on the Leaderboard.
3.) We don't share user numbers publicly, but there are many several thousands of players in competitive matchmaking. The recently added "Percentile Rank" should give you essentially the same idea here, as it shows you what percentage of players fall below your rank so you can see how well you are doing relative to everyone else as a whole.
Where do we report issues? I just had a match that I was pretty certain to win suddenly disconnect with the "time has expired" message and we were both actively putting things in the crib at about 5 seconds
ReplyDeleteAll issues of any kind should be reported to us via email to support@FullerSystems.com Include as much detail as possible, like your username, the time that the event occured, and any other details about what happened so we can investigate it appropriately.
DeleteSeason 2 is great. Thank you for devoting so much of your time to this game. I'm loving it. I would like to see a one time replay option in the future. Sometimes you just feel outlucked (or just the opposite.) Thanks again!
ReplyDeleteHi, thanks for the kind words about the game. I'm glad you are enjoying it. The nature of the matchmaking system really relies on the idea of the system deciding who you play and how often. I understand how with some "bad luck" it would be nice to try again, but we will have to put a lot more thought into the implications of a "replay".
DeleteQuestion, when we're both waiting to discard at the beginning of a hand, any hand. If i throw my discard into the crib with 1 second left my opponents time goes back to 10 seconds and starts counting down again. So it seems they get up to 20 seconds to discard? I hope i explained that right? Seems odd to me.
ReplyDeleteThanks
Hi, that does seem odd. We will have to review things in more detail in our testing systems and see if we can replicate what you are describing. There are some instances where one countdown is actually for the previous activity (showing hand/crib scores), so that could be what you are seeing, but we will need to dig a little more to make sure.
DeleteJust as a quick follow-up, I can confirm that this is just how things are seen from your perspective, as the timer doesn't know exactly when your opponent completed dealing the cards out and when their timer started. This means your side will just default to show the full time limit available in the game, but your opponent will show the correct time limit, and the server will track that as well.
DeleteCan you please put the breakdown of the points-to-level back on this page? It was nice being able to check how close I was to Diamond or Master the 1st season but I don't have it memorized...although I should have for the number of times I looked at it!
ReplyDeleteSure, I'll update the blog post with that at the bottom for you.
DeleteHello. My score was not reset to zero for season two either. Didn't get an email. Can it still be redone?
ReplyDeleteHi if you believe your CR was not reset at the start of the season, please email us at support@FullerSystems.com and include your username and any other relevant information or screenshots.
DeleteThank you. Email and screenshot sent.
DeleteThank you. Email and screenshot sent.
DeleteHow on earth can you call selecting competitive games? The first match was a double skunk followed by a skunk, the second match 2 straight skunks and the 3rd match 1 game each and the third a skunk. My hands were simply impossible to play and full of rubbish, while the 3 opponent’s had stellar hands. Every game started with me over 20 points down even when I was dealing!
ReplyDeleteIs that competitive? I can’t imagine the opponents were thrilled about it either with absolutely no contest.
Hi, the competitive matchmaking system doesn't change how the cards are shuffled or dealt out in any way. They are always using a true random shuffle and always dealt fairly. We have done a lot of work to make sure that is the case, but it doesn't mean that there won't be runs of bad luck. Just as in real life, cribbage is a game of both skill and luck. Sometimes that luck will outweigh the skill, and sometimes it will not. We don't interfere with the random shuffle to try and alter that in any way, so the cards will fall as they will. Because we do use a true random shuffle, and because we built the competitive matchmaking system in a way to account for that luck factor, if you play through more matches you will see things balance back out and your skill ranking will be adjusted accordingly.
DeleteYou are either dishonest or have no concept of the game of cribbage. I defy you to prove the cards on this app are not random.
DeleteI can say I've been on both sides of this - I'll lose 6 games in a row, some with just crazy bad cards....but then I'll win 8 in a row with some hands that are stellar. Sucks when I'm losing, great when I'm winning - balanced enough for me
DeleteI agree. Having played for 40 years I believe that the randomness of the cards beyond belief and therefore consider it a bit of fun rather than a true test of ability
ReplyDeleteHi, we have worked very hard to make sure the game is using a true random shuffle, and we have not just claimed that it is doing so, but discussed it numerous times in detail on this blog along with full audits of the system and even the offer to let anyone view the code used in the game to show this to be the case. A true random shuffle for each and every hand is often quite different than you might see in a real life physical deck of cards, but it is absolutely fair in every respect. If you would like to see something further that we have not already provided, just let us know.
DeleteYou have a great game and I really enjoy it. I am not crying it is unfair but am saying the element of luck setting is extreme and wholly unrealistic. While that is the case the game is fun but not a proper challenge of skill.
ReplyDeleteThe randomness of the cards on this app is completely realistic. Do a little homework and you will realize that. For example, add up the total number of 28 and 29 hands for players in the top 50 and compare the actual percentages with statistical chance. They are very consistent.
DeleteIs there a time limit on each hand or the match itself? Twice now I have won the first hand and had my opponent then slow play on everything. Then I got the "time has expired, we will determine who won" message. This is not the "you took too long to decide" message. Both times the player has been significantly higher rated than me and even though I won the first hand - I ended up losing the match
ReplyDeleteThe only time limit is for each player turn - a turn time limit. There is no overall time limit in our game. The message you are describing usually indicates there was a connection problem between either your device and the game servers or your opponent. Without a specific game to review, I can't say for sure, but given that you were given the loss it sounds like something dropped your connection or otherwise interrupted it in some fashion that didn't allow it to recover.
DeleteHey folks,
ReplyDeleteGreat work with the format here. It all seems to be flowing pretty well for only the second live draft.
Just wondering: is there a way to build a short delay into the transition between game end, display of result, and the start of a new game? I get there needs to be some time limiting there. Maybe a ten second review period of the final play?
Unless the final card came from my own hand I can never seem to catch what actually finished the game. I find the abrupt change a bit disorienting at times.
Also, is there a way to add a quick post match review/summary screen, similar to the regular single player review? It would be great to be able to see something like that. Even if briefly reliving the mad scramble to avoid yet another skunk is the best I can hope for...
Hi, thanks for your kind words and for the suggestions. We do have it set to move quickly to the next game in a match to keep things moving, but I understand the request to review how things finished too. I'll add this to our list of things to consider in the future.
DeleteFor the end of a match/game, we do plan on bringing something similar to the single player screen to the online multiplayer games in the future.
In the post game summary, I think a good stat to display is "total number of pegged points" in the game. You could replace # of 28/29 hands since that rarely happens.
ReplyDeleteHi Brian, thanks for the suggestion. We do have on our list some improvements to the end of game screens, and I'll make sure your suggestion is on that list too.
DeleteI want to know how you say the cards are random? I’ve had the same hand 3 times in a row and more than one time. Another issue is how can the counter start before I’ve been dealt my cards they’re not even finished dealt to me the opponent has already discarded I don’t get a chance to look at my hand
ReplyDeleteThis is a total scam good thing I don’t pay for this crap
Hi, we don't just "say the cards are random", we actually have worked very hard to make sure they are random, and to also publicly publish audits as well that you can find in the game FAQ. We have even offered to let anyone view the code used in the game to show this definitively. If you ever have a game that you want us to review, just email us and we will be happy to take a look and make sure everything is working as expected. That is also why we do our audits, as we don't want to just blindly trust that we got it right, but we want to analyze the results and make sure.
DeleteFor both players in the game, the timer will always start when the cards are being dealt out. No player has any advantage in that. If you see someone discard before your cards are even dealt out, then it means either they are using the fast deal option (available in the game settings to everyone) and/or they have a better/faster connection to the game server and so their timer started earlier than you. That doesn't give them any advantage, as the game server will track all play times and make sure they happen within the time limit regardless of connection speed, but it may be partly why you can see someone discard so quickly. The other option is simply that they progressed through the previous "show" phase of the last hand faster than you did, and so reached the deal of the next hand faster too. We don't make the opponent wait for you to progress to the end of the show phase before they do.
If you have any other questions, please email us any time at support@FullerSystems.com
Game froze and gave me loss.
ReplyDeleteEmail us at support@FullerSystems.com and include your username and what time this happened, and we will review the game and make sure it is working properly. If you have a loss as the result of a bug or system issue of some kind, we can revert it for you.
DeleteWanting to know why I got no points for win against match of opponent 900 points lower than me?
ReplyDeleteHi, please contact us at support@FullerSystems.com so we can investigate this and let you know how the calculation was done specifically. Generally speaking, a win always increases your rankings, but there are some instances where the increases in CR are fractional and the display of your CR is always a rounded representation of it.
DeleteWhy is it that in multiple matches my opponent will exceed the time limit, 10 seconds and not get booted? Yet if I do it 3 times, I'm out. Its frustrating because they use it as a tool to slow the game down. Payback, you could say.
ReplyDeleteHi, usually this is just an internet lag thing, and this is why the game server is the ultimate enforcer of the time limits. On your device, the timer is ticking down there only (it has no view of your opponent) and so from your device perspective the time limit may have been exceeded while the game server will consider things like internet lag and has a better/complete perspective of all of the players and the time they take between turns.
DeleteLast game my opponent disconnect I was declared the winner how come I am minus two
ReplyDeleteEmail us with your username and what time this match completed to support@FullerSystems.com, and we can investigate it for you directly.
DeleteApp freezes it says loading cards or my card is waiting to be flipped?? and i get timed out??? It happened to me twice today ! Lost both games!!! Both times i was winning significantly???? Glad i am not playing for money??
ReplyDeleteHi, what you are describing sounds like a connection problem of some kind. Please email us at support@FullerSystems.com so we can investigate it further with you.
DeleteIs app overloaded ??? Fyi ...timed out happened to me again??? 3rd time in 2 days!!! This time I was in the third game in the match.....
ReplyDeleteIt happened to my buddy as well after after a cut!
The game servers are far away from reaching capacity. As mentioned earlier, if you are persistently having connection problems, please email us at support@FullerSystems.com so we can investigate it further with you.
Delete